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Re: [tor-talk] Use of TOR for illegal activities


> On 20 May 2015, at 05:10, Paul A. Crable <paul@crable.us> wrote:
> I have just finished Macdonald's "Future Crime", a recent book listing the
> ways in which we are all abused and insulted, and will be further abused
> and insulted, by unsavory persons and organizations through our
> technology, particularly through the Internet.  It makes sobering reading.
> TOR is mentioned frequently, but the references are primary to its use by
> criminals to carry out illegal activity, such as the Silk Road incident.
> This ties in somewhat to a recent posting on this list claiming that 2/3's
> of the activity on TOR is involved in pornography.
> I suppose I sound like a disapproving fussbudget, but I have trouble
> understanding how and why we allow TOR to be used this way.  I'm all for
> free speech, but it's still illegal to falsely yell "Fire!" in a crowded
> theater.

First, a society with NO CRIME would be a terrible idea. Since this would require 1984 to be fully implemented, and such a dystopian society would consist of slaves.

So some crime is to be accepted in a modern society - especially victimless crimes like marijuana use should be revisited and laws should be changed ASAP.
- one europol chief once said about 3% of a population are potential criminals

and what is crime?

You mention pornography, and in my country Denmark it is legal - and so is free speech
in other countries around the world we see lots of problems even with blogging - which quickly lands you in jail or punished harshly. One recent example is Raif Badawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raif_Badawi

So to agree on a defintion of Tor use which is "approved" is ridiculous to even start discussing.

So me being an exit-node operator I trust that the benefits from allowing Tor helps the world overall, with censorship free access to communication
and the bad parts I trust will be less - often because the crimes committed have traces into the real physical world.
Some examples were already listed by others, and child abuse should be stopped before it happens - not AFTER the fact with pictures flowing through the internet.

So yes, we should DEFINITELY combat crime like child abuse - and please call it what it is!
- but disabling, blocking, censoring, changing Tor would probably NOT help, since you would at the same time have to break things like ordinary VPN.

> Is there some way to keep TOR out of the hands of sleazebags and crooks?
what sleaze bags are we talking about now?

without getting to much into politics we see bankers killing the world for profit, and the results are fracking, hunger, ...
and we see politicians and FBI heads talking about surveillance of ordinary people - that have done nothing wrong.

To me it is clear that allowing at least Tor traffic through my networks I am enabling a more fair discussion, and allows good things to happen.

It still makes me sad though that bad things happen, and some of those are using the Tor network and my server.

Mvh/Best regards

Henrik Lund Kramshøj, Follower of the Great Way of Unix
internet samurai cand.scient CISSP
hlk@kramse.org hlk@solidonetworks.com +45 2026 6000
http://solidonetworks.com/ Network Security is a business enabler

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