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Re: [tor-talk] Historically speaking, what was the U.S. navy /military



Hi Cari,

On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 06:38:07PM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
> dear paul - specifically how did YOU know how to / or that you could get
> funding from the navy... specifically the navy that is... not just the
> general US gov

I'm confused. I work at the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. The Navy
is a standard place for me to apply to with any funding proposal. 
Perhaps this will help
http://www.nrl.navy.mil/doing-business/

And, for any proposal, we _don't_ know that we can get funding for it
till a funder agrees. 

HTH,
Paul

> 
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Paul Syverson <paul.syverson@nrl.navy.mil>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 03:58:59PM +0800, Virgil Griffith wrote:
> > > >         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind of
> > > >         answers your question would generate.
> > >
> > > I was hoping for responses like those from Dr. Syverson.  I was not
> > > interested in debating the ethics or justification---simply what the
> > > original funders were looking for / wishing to fund.
> > >
> > > To summarize, the answer I got was: There was no explicit problem to
> > > be solved,
> >
> > There _were_ explicit problems, but nobody approached us with them or
> > with requirements that they said needed a new technology. We came up
> > with some specific problems we thought might be useful to solve and a
> > technology that addressed them. These co-evolved, and I can't say
> > which is the chicken and which is the egg. We also tried to design in
> > an open-ended and modular way in expectation of other applications
> > that we had not yet thought of or evolutions of existing applications.
> > And this was as much or more about anticipation than about the
> > communication environment that existed at the time, which is the
> > reason I mentioned the pizza channel (since I don't think anybody was
> > offering a way to order food over the Web in 1995).
> >
> > > we just had this cool research idea and ONR was cool with
> > > funding us to study it.  However, when we discussed the motivations
> > > with managers we talked about mitigating leaks from things like "The
> > > Pizza Channel" or enabling field-agents to covertly phone home.
> >
> > Well not just managers. In papers, conference presentations, etc.
> > basically to anyone that we were trying to tell about onion routing
> > and what it had the potential to do.
> >
> > aloha,
> > Paul
> >
> > >
> > > -V
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:41:18 +0800
> > > > Virgil Griffith <i@virgil.gr> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I delegate this thread to tor-opentalk@lists.torproject.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >         By the way, you started this thread here and now you want to
> > > >         move it somewhere else?
> > > >
> > > >         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind of
> > > >         answers your question would generate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> > On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 07:16:43 +0300
> > > >> > Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> https://youtu.be/qXajND7BQzk?t=27m40s
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> here is on camera explanation of why the navy wants you to use
> > > >> >> tor ... if YOU dont it wont work
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >         Bingo.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >         If only the criminals from the americunt military and other
> > > >> >         branches of government used some kind of 'secret' network,
> > > >> > it wouldn't be secret at all. So they (have to) use other users as
> > > >> >         cover. Sick - like everything the US government does.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> syverson - the way it is portrayed here - worked at the naval lab
> > > >> >> and developed the idea there
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
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> > > >
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cari Machet
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