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Re: [tor-talk] Historically speaking, what was the U.S. navy /military



On 08/03/2015 10:02 AM, Paul Syverson wrote:
> Hi Cari,
> 
> On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 06:38:07PM +0300, Cari Machet wrote:
>> dear paul - specifically how did YOU know how to / or that you could get
>> funding from the navy... specifically the navy that is... not just the
>> general US gov
> 
> I'm confused. I work at the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. The Navy
> is a standard place for me to apply to with any funding proposal. 
> Perhaps this will help
> http://www.nrl.navy.mil/doing-business/

When did you start working at NRL? Also, what were some of your other
early projects?

> And, for any proposal, we _don't_ know that we can get funding for it
> till a funder agrees. 
> 
> HTH,
> Paul
> 
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 5:56 PM, Paul Syverson <paul.syverson@nrl.navy.mil>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 03, 2015 at 03:58:59PM +0800, Virgil Griffith wrote:
>>>>>         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind of
>>>>>         answers your question would generate.
>>>>
>>>> I was hoping for responses like those from Dr. Syverson.  I was not
>>>> interested in debating the ethics or justification---simply what the
>>>> original funders were looking for / wishing to fund.
>>>>
>>>> To summarize, the answer I got was: There was no explicit problem to
>>>> be solved,
>>>
>>> There _were_ explicit problems, but nobody approached us with them or
>>> with requirements that they said needed a new technology. We came up
>>> with some specific problems we thought might be useful to solve and a
>>> technology that addressed them. These co-evolved, and I can't say
>>> which is the chicken and which is the egg. We also tried to design in
>>> an open-ended and modular way in expectation of other applications
>>> that we had not yet thought of or evolutions of existing applications.
>>> And this was as much or more about anticipation than about the
>>> communication environment that existed at the time, which is the
>>> reason I mentioned the pizza channel (since I don't think anybody was
>>> offering a way to order food over the Web in 1995).
>>>
>>>> we just had this cool research idea and ONR was cool with
>>>> funding us to study it.  However, when we discussed the motivations
>>>> with managers we talked about mitigating leaks from things like "The
>>>> Pizza Channel" or enabling field-agents to covertly phone home.
>>>
>>> Well not just managers. In papers, conference presentations, etc.
>>> basically to anyone that we were trying to tell about onion routing
>>> and what it had the potential to do.
>>>
>>> aloha,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -V
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:41:18 +0800
>>>>> Virgil Griffith <i@virgil.gr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I delegate this thread to tor-opentalk@lists.torproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>         By the way, you started this thread here and now you want to
>>>>>         move it somewhere else?
>>>>>
>>>>>         You did that on purpose, right? You obviously knew the kind of
>>>>>         answers your question would generate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Juan <juan.g71@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 07:16:43 +0300
>>>>>>> Cari Machet <carimachet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://youtu.be/qXajND7BQzk?t=27m40s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> here is on camera explanation of why the navy wants you to use
>>>>>>>> tor ... if YOU dont it wont work
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Bingo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         If only the criminals from the americunt military and other
>>>>>>>         branches of government used some kind of 'secret' network,
>>>>>>> it wouldn't be secret at all. So they (have to) use other users as
>>>>>>>         cover. Sick - like everything the US government does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> syverson - the way it is portrayed here - worked at the naval lab
>>>>>>>> and developed the idea there
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cari Machet
>> NYC 646-436-7795
>> carimachet@gmail.com
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