[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: Paging Jim Bell
- From: Steven Schear <schear.steve AT gmail.com>
- Subject: Re: Paging Jim Bell
- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 10:44:35 -0700
- Arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=fail firstname.lastname@example.org header.s=20161025 header.b=sqGO6yBo; spf=pass (google.com: domain of cypherpunks-bounces AT lists.cpunks.org designates 188.8.131.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cypherpunks-bounces AT lists.cpunks.org; dmarc=fail (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
- Arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=sender:errors-to:list-subscribe:list-help:list-post:list-archive :list-unsubscribe:list-id:precedence:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:dkim-signature :delivered-to:arc-authentication-results; bh=DWaCMTN/jYVGkpv0bwoIfnBxhtkTwvF8oLvLtLWvx2I=; b=t0hvdKz5Lpe9caVPZYpmwD7sjWaCIh61N8vU9iAZ8T0xymUmurTVCnFXCW5IeO03Ec E/HUqmbxjpfuXMXWteYpLRps5XgHWY1Y04cgIJmqtJeInCk5lDmgtqfoT+N4POwh0jn7 P+WCE76aIpQeRMJzds905+zUhAUUVFNvbBFKWGucxPlGs/DBcjFL94BI5IISLu6yYd5C SVIEN+vuQMCkSdgHcHCsULzWJj41dFFjLY19rw8HDeoCTAF53qwAJgc1EqjK/9yxvShg b87ie8ozAEpYy3toNvY31oPtGSN68diloxcwrXEEkPn9LiU0sdwxxEAV4JPyM8COSUAf cNMw==
- Arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1532540794; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=Ozo7KhdB58ftNwuBqajDR8BSJ5m6LJWRFWf4temL9uLRVeNNLASeTs/7b8YBoNDCEd 0TXtOX9oHGkq+hBt2UGFnuF9o8Y5Z1HvmO4HiNiTMMPDDLHe0r5NafetfiKA22mj4w0H DFbEGqTjfIZRwj+P500S4RfvvN3I0saiSGbd9WQcFLByq6Di7rPpWRB4af0WWs1zN2yr HPWfuEVE1yZRAH9pFY1MIz1YgLJHSAeaDOmWLsPtAgJHpQwUWVigGd+Ss/G0iZolCQzE uWCSCkBI0Y1fAmmmD4hVRhBTtD3d/+l9rbh8KUeIDdNXbu9KOJcpuDdmrKpuw12nvYA+ 34lg==
- Cc: cypherpunks <cypherpunks AT lists.cpunks.org>
- List-archive: <http://lists.cpunks.org/pipermail/cypherpunks/>
- Sender: "cypherpunks" <cypherpunks-bounces AT lists.cpunks.org>
- To: jim bell <jdb10987 AT yahoo.com>
My concept is similar to current financial futures except, for example, the "put" buyer only generically specifies day, week or month within the full wager period. The exact day, week or month is encrypted and can only be revealed by the buyer should their prediction prove true in order to collect. The leverage on the wager will vary by 365, 52 or 12, for example, for bets based on a day, week or month, respectively.
Ah yes, excellent point, and quite true. I'd forgotten... Which is one reason this new system (I haven't looked at it yet) might not "work", at least it won't bring us an AP-type system. If the question is, "Will [fill in the blank with a name] be alive at the end of the year 2018?", then everybody who bets "No" is essentially on the same footing. They'd all share, proportionately, in the reward. A person who predicted death before 2019 is on the same footing as everyone else who made the same prediction. Thus, there is little incentive to "adjust the odds"acting outside of the game.
If, instead, the system is designed to allow bettors to 'predict' the date and perhaps even the time of the death, that system carefully excludes most other 'competing' bettors: If one bettor predicted December 1, and another predicted December 3, if the actual death occurred on December 1 all other bettors would lose the 'pot', and only those who predicted December 1 would share the 'pot'. This greatly leverages the betting. Which is why death-on-a-certain-date was my intended model when I wrote AP.
Another practical requirement is leveraged betting. This enables those intending to act outside of these online venues but with limited financial means to wager in such ways as their payouts are greatly disproportionate to their wagers.
On 07/24/2018 10:55 PM, jim bell wrote:
>Hey! Props to you, Jim! Very cool!
>But still, in a gambling context, this is more like typical dead pool
betting, which has been a thing like forever.
"A sufficiently large market predicting an individual's death is also, necessarily, an assassination market, and similarly other "prediction" markets are also act markets, changing incentives to act outside that market to bring about the predicted events."
And he was right. It is the size, or lack of it, which is the primary thing which has prevented 'dead pool' betting from turning into AP.
The other thing necessary to turn such a prediction market into a classic AP system https://cryptome.org/ap.htm is good, i.e. perfect, anonymity of bets and payouts: So nobody else, other than than the bettor himself, knows who he is, and he knows he can collect the payout anonymously without risk. I don't know if this Ethereum/Augur system has such anonymity, but I suppose we'll find out soon enough. It wouldn't be particularly useful if it didn't.
The main advantage added by Ethereum/Augur, I assume, is that it acts as a distributed computer system that, being "everywhere", ends up being "nowhere": It cannot be shut down by government authority.