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Re: "The West" - an absolute disgrace to Humanity!



On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 07:52:34PM +0200, Tomasz Rola wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 09, 2016 at 10:33:58PM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > >    This rhetoric—calling it an argument would overstate its relation
> > >    to facts—has recently come into vogue among Russian
> > >    historians. Under their interpretation of history, the struggle
> > >    that began with the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941
> > >    continues for Russia today, in a direct line through the
> > >    generations, with the conflict in Ukraine. That is the connection
> > >    President Vladimir Putin first presented to the Russian people in
> > >    March, when he sent his troops to invade and annex the Ukrainian
> > >    region of Crimea.
> > 
> > "Invasion" of Crimea by Russia in 2014? Please!
> > 
> > If the actions of Russia in the face of the Azov battalian's "peace
> > train" to Crimea, a referendum, secession and joining to Russia, without
> > a single bullet fired, is supposed to be a "Russian invasion", then the
> > world does not have much to worry about with Russia.
> 
> I guess Russia is no longer powerful enough to openly break treaties
> it signed:
> 
> [
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
> 
> ]
> 
>    "The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances refers to three
>    identical political agreements signed in Budapest, Hungary on 5
>    December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories
>    relating to Belarus', Kazakhstan's and Ukraine's accession to the
>    Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum
>    was originally signed by three nuclear powers, the Russian
>    Federation, the United States of America, and the United
>    Kingdom. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual
>    assurances in separate documents.
> 
>    The memorandum included security assurances against threats or use
>    of force against the territorial integrity or political
>    independence of Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan."
> 
> In light of this act, if I was responsible for Russian politics, and I
> received a plea to join Russia by a foreign party belonging to country
> which integrity I myself guaranteed - such a plea would smell rather
> fishy to me. Unless, of course, I predicted great bonuses if I agree
> and let them join me. Never mind that right now there is huge loss of
> money for Russia, they will replenish their finances in a future,
> somehow.

How can you stomach saying that and in the same breath you decry
America's most blatant coup in history overthrowing ... Ukraine?!


Oh, that's right, what America does is not bad, what Russia does cannot
be anything BUT bad, because, -Russians-!


And of course, you read Putin's Crimea speech.


You must be Polish. Sorry, I mean American.



I won't dignify the rest with any further reply, you are trolling.

> > I guess it would also be "assumed fact" that Russia continues, for over
> > 2 years, to "invade" eastern Ukraine/ Donbass - I tell you this, if I
> > had family living in Donbass who would struggle to defend themselves
> > against various Ukraine "battallians", to defend their families,
> > children, houses, friends, I would most likely have been fighting with
> > them to help them defend the rest of my family, their house, friends
> > etc.
> 
> This works the other way too. How about people who want to defend
> their families, children, houses and friends from living in Russia?
>
> > ISIS invades Syria, entering from Iraq, Turkey and other surrounding
> > areas, provided weapons and training by CIA, and takes over towns and
> > cities; THAT is an invasion.
> 
> And I was so certain that daesh had been financed by some wealthy
> people from Near East.
> 
> [...]
> > Saying black is white don't mean shit!
> 
> Some people will believe just anything.
> 
> [...]
> > >From what I've seen from afar, it is. And up until about 2 years ago, I
> > didn't know much about Russia... but I keep reading, Western as well as
> > Russian propaganda.
> 
> Oh, do you mean you know/learn Russian? Because this is the best way
> to read Russian propaganda. Try to be like Aleksandr, who (I guess)
> already knows Russian and learned English, so he can read the
> propaganda from both sources without having to count on strangers'
> good will and faithfulness.
> 
> Actually, do not limit yourself to mere propaganda. It would have been
> so cheap, you know. Russian culture is vast and rich. Try it. Some
> names to explore, if you need a starter: Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Mikhail
> Sholokhov, Isaac Babel, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Osip Mandelstam,
> Mikhail Bulgakov, Varlam Shalamov. Some of them you can get for free,
> from wikisources and other places. Even more of their works you can
> find if you can read them from Russian wikisources.
> 
> > >    “The more people are convinced of their own opinion, the more they
> > >    become estranged from other opinions. That’s a real difficult
> > >    problem.” And as Russia sets out to redefine what Nazism means, it
> > >    is a problem that Western historians will somehow have to face.
> > 
> > A good point here. Let's see how things play out over the next couple of
> > years.
> 
> Sure.
> 
> > > > "The West", an absolute disgrace to humanity..
> > > 
> > > I can only imagine when people find out about this, they will run like
> > > hares and mad cows straight to non-western countries.
> > 
> > We Westerners are well fed, well entertained, well schooled (not
> > educated) and sadly very compliant with external authorities.
> > 
> > Golden cages do -not- make for an honourable humans!
> 
> I would say that cages made of barbed wire convert humans to
> animals. So if I can choose, may I stay in my silver cage, please? It
> does not really have to be golden one.
> 
> > > Spread the word,
> > > man. Also, buy your tickets while you can, before the mad crowd
> > > prevents you from running away from this horrible place. Even better,
> > > once you buy tickets, use them asap, go to your destination, meet your
> > > dreams. Do not forget to drop few words to the list, so other lost
> > > souls know what to expect outside.
> > 
> > I would hope humans worthy of that noun, strive for something higher
> > than a new car, 5 bedroom house and footy tickets.
> > 
> > Yes, I keep dreaming.
> 
> >From "Cancer Ward" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, as given on wikipedia [
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Ward ]:
> 
> (start quote)
> 
>    The most confusing thing about the imprisoned animals was that even
>    supposing Oleg took their side and had the power, he would still
>    not want to break into the cages and liberate them. This was
>    because, deprived of their home surroundings, they had lost the
>    idea of rational freedom. It would only make things harder for
>    them, suddenly to set them free.
> 
>    This was the odd way Kostoglotov reasoned. His brain was so twisted
>    that he could no longer see things simply and dispassionately.
>    Whatever he experienced from now on, there would always be this
>    shadow, this grey spectre, this subterranean rumbling from the
>    past.
> 
> (end quote)
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Tomasz Rola