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Re: Litvinenko - Russian demonisation continues to crumble





On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 2:07 AM Zenaan Harkness <zen@freedbms.net> wrote:

OK, a few facts first, to try to pre-empt some standard responses (to
whoever ends up reading this):


1)
I am pro-Russian, from points of view including the following:

   - That which I perceive as a "higher human intention" permeating the
     Russian psyche, Russian history and the "Russian ethos".

   - Putin is unimpeachable. He has never taken any bribe, is patriotic
     for his nation, loves his people, speaks truth, and encourages
     Russians, and the entire world, to stand for a better world -
     seriously, can we ask for a better leader? in ANY country?

I like a lot of what you say, and it's great to read the perspective of someone who is completely outside the western propaganda-sphere, but I find your devotion to Putin to be both baffling and concerning. There is simply no way a former intelligence agent and director of an intelligence agency, ANY intelligence agency, who then somehow rose all the way to be President of a large, powerful country is "unimpeachable." The rest of the things you say about him may well be true, except perhaps for the "better world" part. Nobody can unilaterally stand for the rest of the world unless they are willing to collaborate and compromise with a lot of other people.

This is not to say that Putin is any worse than any US leader, of course. But substantially better? I seriously doubt it. I'd be equally concerned about any US or European leader who inspired a level of devotion similar to what Putin inspires in his followers. Of course, it is in large part the West's fault that Russians look to someone like Putin in the first place. We failed to dissolve NATO after the USSR collapsed, which is part of a pattern of the US acting like it "won" the cold war (the same way it thinks it "won" WWII) and thus now owns the planet.
 

   - Russians (in general) do not say "I, human, am the greatest and
     highest thing in existence" - such arrogance is not the Russian
     way.
     Russians allow for things or consciousnesses or beings of greater
     capacity, things yet unknown to the mind of man, for higher
     possibilties for "man" and "soul";
     as true scientists, Russian souls are open to higher possibilties,
     potential and actual realities, holding as true that we are more
     than reproducing worms.
     No matter -how- great any "scientific achievement," humility in the
     face of the extraordinary-ness of this existence is maintained.

   - As at right now, the multi-polar world vision is the only hope we
     have for a reasonable power balance in this world.
     Anarchists or those desiring direct democracy, the "true"
     socialists and "true" communists, and even the communalist Rojavans
     - none have the mind share to cause a significant stand against
     America the hegemon!
     Perhaps in the future, we can attempt to move towards something
     even better than a multi polar nationalistic world, who knows - I
     certainly hope for greater possibilities, but right now, America is
     absolutely despotic in its actions, and its collective despotic
     hegemonic intention, MUST be stopped.

The hegemon must be stopped.

Agreed, though I am not sure about the "nationalistic" part. Multipolar, as an acknowledgement that not everyone wants the same thing, but I'd prefer we were all skeptical of our own nation and accepting of others.
 


2)
The world is in the middle of a major war at the moment, and most
sheeple don't see this war for the future 'world order' - they see
"localised" military wars only - Libya, Iraq, Syria, etc. But the real
war is a war of wills, the war of empire - the American hegemonic
intention vs the "global south" (as Pepe Escobar calls it) and this
"global south"'s multi-polar intention.

"Major war" in the sense that this may be when the world finally realizes it is not, in fact, unipolar. Once nations start realising the US cannot keep its promises to protect them, they will start looking elsewhere and taking more responsibility for their own defense. I feel like the US's turning to Iran for help with Daesh, along with asking countries to continue to invest more in their own militaries, is a pretty strong indication that the US realizes this is happening and that many here are actually willing to accept that fact. But this is by no means a popular view here, with both Trump and Clinton promising in their own ways to "make America great again". I'd prefer "Make America part of the world for the first time."
 

I say this multi-polar possibility, in the framework of nations, MICs
and governments (which predominate the world today), is the only current
hope for a balance of powers in this world, for the possibility of one
or a group of countries opposing a demonic / evil intention of another
very powerful country (right now, it is America and its endless
domination of the rest of the planet, in the future, it may be some
other wanna-be hegemon).

I imagine there are those in the US who would welcome a new cold war. They are obviously trying to create (have created) a new one. It seems like there's a pretty big risk of taking us back to a bipolar world rather than a unipolar one.
 

Saddam Hussein had the gall to think he could throw off his CIA
overlords (who put him in power in the first place) and start selling
oil for Euros, ditching the US dollar. Are you kidding me?

Not sure I buy this particular theory, considering how strongly GWB pushed for the invasion from his first day of office. I think it comes down to simple revenge for the plot to assassinate his father.
 

Muammar Gaddhafi was slowly building a physical gold base reached over
120 tonnes (small by some national standards, very large by Canadian
standards) and he consistently promoted an arabic world "gold dinar"
currency. And what happened when he started to try to sell oil for
currencies other than US dollars?

That's right, America, France and the UK piled in to bust up his party.

The hegemon must be stopped.

Oil is obviously strategic, but I think you overestimate the US's belief in the risk of the decline of the petrodollar. I think the US convinced Saudi Arabia to keep pumping despite declining oil prices in order to weaken Russia economically while propping up its own flagging, net-oil-importing economy. This plan only works in the short term, though, and it will end up making Russia stronger in the long term, since Russians aren't idiots and will diversify. I think Putin's decision to ditch tech and focus exclusively on energy was a huge mistake that made it more vulnerable to this strategy than it would have been otherwise, but there is still time to reverse that mistake.
 



3)
Putin is the only true statesman on the world stage today. Now I'm sure
some will disagree with this, but if you wish to suggest the contrary to
me, please bring with you AT LEAST ONE FACT. There are first hand
reports where Americans studying him for many years from within Russia
have stated "yeah, we haven't been able to find a single instance of
Putin accepting a bribe" for just one of many examples.

I don't have a strong opinion on this, other than that it is a matter of opinion. You request facts, and you state a couple, but you actually need references. And even with references, accepting bribes is not the only form of corruption. I consider benefiting from bad things done on your behalf, even when you did not order them, to also be a form of corruption if you do not denounce them, investigate them, prosecute them, etc.
 

And if you can find an actual fact that shows an evil deed done by
Putin, an example of corruption by his own hands, I will be very
surprised, and will question and research your source - so be prepared to
be absolutely certain about your purported fact.

It is always true of politicians and cops that it's very hard to point to a specific evil thing they did. After all, if you could prove it, they would have been impeached, no?
 

The only fact I have that goes anywhere near this is the current Russian
legislation making its way towards law which shall require backdoors in
all encryption software sold (perhaps used?) in Russia - I hope it's not
signed into law, but if it is, it is hard to deny Russia parity with the
"glorious" West, in the face of the endless attempts to overthrow
nations both near to Russia, and in other continents, and Russia itself!

Well, if it passes, you can always hope the various western countries pass similar laws. I don't think the US is likely to succeed, but you never know. The FBI keeps hammering on this "going dark" bullshit.
 

American government's intention to split Russia up the guts is
documented by America itself. Poor Soros, he is currently failing with
this particular intention, and we ought be very very grateful this is
so.

I don't think the USG has a single intention. But at best, they have seriously underestimated Russia and been incredibly disrespectful toward them. But it does seem plausible to me that there are elements in the US government who wish to pull all of Russia's old partners away to isolate them. Which seems idiotic to me.
 

As many of us have now read many times, by American mouths,
"Ukraine's recent Maidan was the most blatant coup in history", and
America, mostly via the CIA, has been attacking nation after nation,
democratically elected leader after democratically elected leader in
foreign nations around the world, since WWII. America is the epitome of
a hegemonic empire nation running amok - and sadly, no one even
attempts to dispute this very sad fact...

I certainly won't attempt to dispute it. Just the part about Russia's or Putin's ambitions being particularly pure.
 

4)
With the quantity, quality and intensity of mud slinging propaganda
against USSR (since WWII), against Russia since the USSR's collapse, and
against Putin in his time, it is so very easy for us Western schooled
humans to accept that "some of the mud just MUST be true", e.g. "oh
well, this particular Western lie has been exposed, but you know, Putin
is still really bad, and Russia is just murderers and drunkards, like all
the way down like".

No there might not be any truth to the "bad Russians, bad Putin" meme!

Maybe.
 
Perhaps they're fellow humans?

Certainly.
 
Perhaps they're in fact really fine humans, and real humans?

Politicians are never "really fine humans." But I have no doubt that Putin loves Russia and wants to make it great again. But I have similarly little doubt that Donald Trump loves America and wants to make it great again. The devil is in the details.

Perhaps their current leader is pretty damn great, by any and all
international, national and local, Christian, and any other, standards?

Maybe, compared to other politicians.
 

Perhaps the current collective Russian vision of a multi polar world is
in fact the best thing for all of us on this planet, given the current
despotic intentions of America and the deep hegemon (UK, France, etc -
the Western oligarchic elite power brokers)?

Multi-polar with relatively high freedom of trade and movement, yes. Bi-polar with strong nationalism and economic isolationism? No.
 
We can call this "Russians simply MUST be bad" meme, "the Western
apologist". I.e. the Western apologist is he or she who cannot break the
mold of the Western MSM propaganda, and so has convinced himself that
"although I have not seen an actual fact to say so, it must be true that
Putin is somehow bad, since, you know, he's in government and no one in
government can be trusted anyway, and he's, he's, he's Russian! so he
MUST be bad!"

Read Putin's Crimea speech!

Read Putin's recent anniversary address to the United Nations!

In fact, READ ANY SPEECH OF THE current president of russia,
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, aka VVP!

Read his words! Watch him on youtube!

Please, form your own assessment! Create an opinion for yourself, which
is not my opinion, not the MSM opinion, but is your own, personal,
opinion. Please.

Utopian society cannot be formed instantaneously, and may never be had
generally on this old earth - we have largely despotic democracies
prevailing around the world (despotic because often selfish people
stand for election (they demonstrate their selfishness by their
actions)):

  THIS IS TODAY'S REALITY

- we have to move forward from WHERE WE ARE NOW - what is the best way
to move forward from where we are now?!!

Any possibility for balancing the out of control American Military
Industrial Complex hegemon, is a blessing which we ought seize with both
hands!

Bring on the multi-polar world. Let's do our bit towards at the very
least, this proposed balance of powers in the world!

The hegemon must be stopped...





And now, for today's particular Western lie exposed (sadly, just another
of so many):

-----
Major Allegations Against Russian President Now Being Questioned (Part
I)
Putin, it turns out, was "probably" not responsible for the murder of
Alexander Litvinenko.
Dr. Julia Svetlichnaja
2016-06-28
http://eastwestaccord.com/major-allegations-russian-president-now-questioned/
(Alt:
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/major-allegations-against-russian-president-now-being-questioned-part-i/ri15230
)
-----

Thankfully, with the internet, more and more of the Western lies are
being exposed.