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Re: Wikileaks is the Endgame

On 07/01/2016 08:41 PM, juan wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Jul 2016 19:55:42 -0600
> Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
>>> Mirimir <mirimir@riseup.net> wrote:
>>>>>> As much as I sympathize for victims of criminal states, I believe
>>>>>> that anonymity systems are essential for protecting privacy and
>>>>>> freedom. I also believe that they may eventually reduce state
>>>>>> power substantially. Although that's seeming more and more like
>>>>>> a dream.
>> Yore reading comprehension sucks ;)
> 	I don't think so. 
>> Read the fucking paragraph that you quoted. It says nothing about Tor.
> 	Dude! Context!
> 	The whole discussion was about tor! And at some point
> 	you said 
> 	"I also believe that they may eventually reduce state
> 	power substantially" 
> 	"They" stands for "anonymity systems" which in this
> 	'context' basically means tor. Even more so since you keep
> 	repeating that tor is the best system 'we' have.

As I said, your reading comprehension sucks. Or you're just twisting
shit to pretend that you're right.

> 	So you say that 'anonimity systems' *may eventually* reduce
> 	state power, from which it follows that RIGHT NOW, THEY
> 	DON'T. And you further acknowledge that such reduction seems
> 	like a dream. 
> 	So you basically conceded my point. I simply reading your
> 	allegedly 'general' comment in a way that underscores the fact
> 	that tor doesn't work.

It works for many people.

> 	Would *working* anonimity systems reduce state power? Likely
> 	yes. Do the current anonimity systems reduce state power? No.
> 	Especially tor, a creation of the state.

So you keep saying.

>> It's about anonymity systems generally. That's what you're apparently
>> saying is bullshit. Or have I misread you?
> 	Anonimity systems in general include tor in particular.

Yes, but statements about anonymity systems generally aren't limited to

>> But right now, Tor is the best we have. 
> 	Yeah. You said so a couple of times...
>> So we use it, with suitable
>> precautions. Or we play naked. What else do you suggest?
> 	I suggest you stop using the pronoun 'we'. *You* find the 'free'
> 	tax-funded pentagon's 'anonimity' network useful and apparently
> 	don't care much about the real price of the system. 

No, I don't care about the "real price of the system". Why should I?

And, as I said before, people that you hate would be using any effective
anonymity system. So you might as well get over it.

> 	I further suggest that anybody interested in freedom stay away
> 	from the pentagon. Doubly so if they are cypherpunk
> 	'anarchists' or sympathetic to the cause.

The Pentagon is everywhere, dude ;)