[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [jfw] Versioning namespaces



1. No developer or user likes B/C breaks 
Agreed, it does actually end up costing real dollars at the end of the day. My experience has been a greater hit in confidence going from 2.5.x to 3.x migrations, from the clientele side.

2. Historically the project, imo, has not recovered from the severe 
break from 1.5 to 1.6, and then the template break from 2.5 to 3.
I have seen this from the commercial side, schools and government in particular that have been long time users of Joomla. I actually still have a school on 1.5.26 because they are skittish on cost and unknowns of change.

3 & 4 & 5 (fight on two fronts). Trying to negotiate or agree on the amount of B/C we can break 
going from 3 to 4 is hard (Joomla community sucks at negotiating, 
they'd rather burn the farm than compromise). 
I hear you, I see it from the observational sidelines and the social media universe. I hope this gets sorted as some point in the future, I am worried it might be catastrophic to the integrity of the application itself as leadership wanes and neglect sets in. It truly is the wild west out there but we don't have to let the wolves eat the lambs.

6. It's better to get behind some idea that could lead to a modicum of 
success than to do nothing and continue to loose momentum. 
Couldn't agree more. While there should be respect for input from all genuine contributors to an open-source project like Joomla, sometimes it pays to put our own idea aside to champion a better outcome for the greater good. Thinking innovation, decoupling, dev friendly and well documented here as well.

Not sure if my own comments here are helpful but a couple of things I would like to see are a move to Composer, decoupling the core extensions, decoupling the bootstrap template from the CMS framework (just because I'd like an easier integration with Foundation or other, 'cause I might want to), a continuation of innovations like the "Install from Web" tab and Google 2-step authentication option(s).

I understand there is a bigger picture here but it's my two cents.
Noel

On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 10:21:44 UTC+10, Andrew Eddie wrote:
Let me be more clear about the problem I am trying to identify:

1. No developer or user likes B/C breaks
2. Historically the project, imo, has not recovered from the severe
break from 1.5 to 1.6, and then the template break from 2.5 to 3.
3. Trying to negotiate or agree on the amount of B/C we can break
going from 3 to 4 is hard (Joomla community sucks at negotiating,
they'd rather burn the farm than compromise).
4. Therefore a fight on two fronts (we need change, and we need to
convince others they need to adopt the change) is harder than one (we
need change, and you can opt into it when you need to).
5. Fighting on two fronts, historically, leads to your best dev's
loosing interest because they spend all their time trying to justify
the work they want to do rather than actually doing it (death by
committee).
6. It's better to get behind some idea that could lead to a modicum of
success than to do nothing and continue to loose momentum.

The disadvantages of this approach are that it leads to code bloat,
and it can lead to confusion about which "code" to use, and it does
make it hard for site builders to customise when you have different
developers using different standards (although my experience is that
the bar is not that high so anything is better than nothing).

The alternative, however, is the continued paralysis that this project
is experiencing in terms of forward innovation and architectural
reform.

Something's got to give.

--
Framework source code: https://github.com/joomla-framework
Visit http://developer.joomla.org for more information about developing with Joomla!
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Joomla! Framework Development" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to joomla-dev-framework+unsubscribe AT googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-framework.