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Re: [jfw] Re: What is the Framework Team supposed to be

Am Freitag, 22. Mai 2015 04:29:38 UTC+2 schrieb Andrew Eddie:
No, that's not exactly the intention, but there is the idea that the
Framework team has a duty to strongly guide the architecture of any
product the Joomla project produces. As I've said before, if the
Framework team is just under the Joomla banner for the advertising
benefits only, it's a waste of time.

> I think pulling is more productive than pushing.

It depends. My observation is simply this. The CMS code is a mess. The
Framework code is not perfect, but is better and has the potential to
be even better still. The Framework, therefore, is the better place to
start reform. The CMS is too hard to solve all at once. The Framework
allows problems to be divided into smaller parts.

Can't argue with that.
My view is there is no point in having a separate Framework Team if
Joomla is not using it. The CMS should have the freedom to choose what
it likes, but if it is not using any of the Framework, the notion of a
"Joomla Framework" needs to be disbanded. Seriously - what sort of
image does it portray when two parts of the same project don't use
each others code. That's just silly.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding. I meant that the FW should not force the CMS. Of course, the CMS should use 
the FW. Let's take an example: The FW evolves, creating new packages and so on, no one cares, everything is fine. 
Now there is a feature request or whatever which brings the CMS in a situation where it's not satisfied with the current implementation. 
Instead of saying "Well, it's your problem. The FW does everything right", the CMS and FW should share thoughts. 
Maybe, the CMS 
- has just doesn't understand how to use the package. Then the FW needs to explain it and/or improve the documentation.
- has a real new feature request. Then the FW should find a solution.

Different departments of a company. This is very familiar to anyone
how does work in any organisation of any size. For developers that
work on their own, I will grant you it's unfamiliar territory.

Well, there's a difference between healthy competition within one company and a destructive battleground within Joomla ;)
Especially if people could be interested in more than one group.

Shouldn't the Framework Team be the first point of contact when the
CMS has a problem it is struggling to solve? If not, why are we even
here? Doesn't it make sense to divide up the work load of producing
the CMS? Maybe I'm the only person that sees it this way, but there
are different problems to solve when thinking about core libraries as
compared to end-features that might be in an extension. You simply
can't discuss deep architectural issues on the same forum as end-user
features. The users just panic because they a) don't understand what
the developers are talking about, and b) they panic because they don't
understand what the developers are talking about.
Your absolutely right, an architect can not discuss every technical details with a principal. 
But a good architect should always be able to explain the himself.
And why is the Framework Team considered them-and-us but not the JBS?
Makes no sense.

Politics, i guess ? ;) 

Framework source code: https://github.com/joomla-framework
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