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[jfw] Re: Packages - Keep or Dump?



Quick message as I'm in the airport security line.

Instead of carrying out full stack through another major version cycle, I'd rather focus on a subset of things that are going to be more useful to the Joomla community, while continuing a modular approach giving potential to use that code outside the CMS context.  For me that means focus on stuff that helps application infrastructure first and support systems second.  Our social APIs for me fall outside that scope (minus GitHub, it's built into the heart of a few tools in our community).  At the FW level, I'd make sure our app, database, language, and session packages are in tip-top shape.  This pulls forward things like input sanitization (input and filter packages).  Step 2 for me would be in areas like the string package (UTF-8 support), our HTTP client, date/time handling, and things that are really baked into the core of our app structures.

Everything else, evaluate for better options and decide if it's worth keeping the code.

On Tuesday, May 26, 2015, Johan Janssens <jjanssens AT gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Michael,

I can understand that my reply was not the reaction you are looking for. Sorry about that. It was the first response that came to mind.. 

I'm not suggesting Joomla should go play in it's own little corner, just trying to putting focus where focus should be. Looking at it purely based on install base the CMS is used by 3% of the internet, the framework has max 10k installs...

Lets considered another way of looking at this. Instead of discussing what packages to remove, what about looking at what packages are worth developing further for a 2.0 release ?

In your request you state :

 "Frankly, we have a fair bit of code that falls into the unused or unmaintained categories that can just be deprecated gracefully, or code that may be well intended but just doesn't fit into the scope of what we do."

Could you explain a bit what the scope you talk about ? This will help me to get a better idea in what context to understand your question.

Thanks!

Johan



On Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:42:47 PM UTC+2, Michael Babker wrote:
No, Joomla doesn't have the resources to compete with a corporate funded framework stack.  But the mentality that we just give up and go play in our little corner doesn't set well with me either.  No, the packages don't get a lot of traffic.  And no, using the combined Framework repo which was ripped apart in Feb 2014 isn't a fair metric either, a deliberate decision (that I don't necessarily agree with) was made to stop shipping a combined framework together and go to a modular release system.

That same argument about giving up IMO could be made about Joomla as a whole, just shut down development and use a CMS that's much better supported or structured.

On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 3:30 PM, Johan Janssens <jjan... AT gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Michael,

Instead of slimming down, I think time has come to throw in the towel. The framework/platform was created with the idea that developers could create standalone Joomla applications. Lets be honest, this didn't happen. To date, we haven't seen any major uptake in the Joomla community, nor the wider PHP community. Developers looking for web application frameworks, are choosing for Laravel, Symfony, ... or others.

A little look at packagist shows that the Joomla Framework was only installed 5000+ times, compared to the more then 5 milion installs for Laravel, or more then 6 milion installs for Symfony.


Contributions to the framework have also stalled completely. There hasn't been any serious commit activity since the latest 1.1.0 release in Feb 2014. See : https://github.com/joomla/joomla-framework/graphs/contributors

As for the separate packages released at https://github.com/joomla-framework, those are not getting installed a lot either, see https://packagist.org/search/?q=joomla Very likely because there are a lot better PHP libraries available today. 

Think it's more then fair to conclude that the framework/platform effort has failed. Nothing wrong with that. I know it's not easy to let go, but lets not waist time and energy on something that developers are not looking for. Instead lets bundle efforts and focus in moving Joomla forward as a content management system.

Johan


On Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 6:09:35 PM UTC+2, Michael Babker wrote:
So the Framework has packed on a good bit of weight and carries 43 packages today.  I think we need to look at putting the Framework on a diet.  Frankly, we have a fair bit of code that falls into the unused or unmaintained categories that can just be deprecated gracefully, or code that may be well intended but just doesn't fit into the scope of what we do.

Packages that should go:

- Facebook
- Google
- LinkedIn
- MediaWiki
- OpenStreetMap
- Twitter

Packages that are questionable:

- Archive
- Data
- Image
- LDAP

Thoughts?

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Framework source code: https://github.com/joomla-framework
Visit http://developer.joomla.org for more information about developing with Joomla!
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- Michael

Please pardon any errors, this message was sent from my iPhone.

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Framework source code: https://github.com/joomla-framework
Visit http://developer.joomla.org for more information about developing with Joomla!
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