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Re: [jfw] Re: 2.0 - Dropping PHP 5.3 Support



Looking around the marketplace some (both CMS and Framework), there's already folks not supporting 5.3.  Us supporting 5.3 allows us to hit that piece of the market others are missing because of it, but how long would we then continue to support it past its EOL?

I kinda like the approach Aura took with their v2 code.  If it can support PHP 5.3, then make it so, but 5.4 is where they guarantee support.  Considering our code is already written against and supporting 5.3, I'd envision that we'd still end up with a product that's mostly supporting that environment.  Another thing to consider too is that Framework 1.x will most likely in some form live on as long as CMS 3.x with us looking at trying to backport some of the Framework code into that application.  Folks really needing PHP 5.3 support will be able to find it, but I think newer development and refactoring shouldn't have to consider that environment.  Of course, if I'm in the minority, I'll happily shut up and go about my merry way; I'm just trying to get a feel for opinions right now and not just make a decision and force people to live with it ;-)


On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Ben Tasker <ben AT bentasker.co.uk> wrote:
With Ubuntu's LTS release this year, a lot more folks are upgrading from PHP 5.3 to 5.5 (IIRC that's what 14.04 is shipping) now so the 5.3 use numbers should start going down.

Except that a lot of hosts won't bother updating for quite some time. Sure, anyone running their own systems should be off 5.3 reasonably soon, but it'll be some time before some hosting services upgrade. We can argue that they're crap hosts, but from a users perspective, if the software they want to use doesn't work on their hosting, it's the software that's crap. That's only going to be made worse if they're using something else that continues to work on 5.3 (and/or won't work on later versions)

Next, dropping 5.3 support wouldn't mean we refactor all the things to break 5.3 support, but newer contributions wouldn't need to support it
The effort/work differs, but the end result is likely the same. At some point a contribution that doesn't work with 5.3 gets made and framework potentially no longer works on 5.3.

Longer term, 5.3 support isn't something that shouldn't have too much energy put into it. But IMHO, really 6 months after EOL is the absolute earliest any breakage should happen, and even then it's likely some hosts won't have updated.


On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Michael Babker <michael.babker AT gmail.com> wrote:
I knew that was coming ;-)

So I am thinking a few things here.  One of them is think beyond the CMS; ya right now it's biggest contributor crowd might be those already using that, but if we want to allow the Framework to grow beyond the Joomla circles, the Framework needs to not be held completely back by supporting the CMS (there may be a time and place for that argument, I just don't personally see this as an issue).  Next, dropping 5.3 support wouldn't mean we refactor all the things to break 5.3 support, but newer contributions wouldn't need to support it.  Last larger item on my mind right now is long term planning; if we were pushing all the packages to 2.0 this week then this discussion would probably be a moot point but realistically we're looking at some time (at least a few months if we take a look at some of the threads on this list and throw around newer ideas) before they're released so do we really want to release a new (what should be long-term supported) series that's supporting EOL software?  With Ubuntu's LTS release this year, a lot more folks are upgrading from PHP 5.3 to 5.5 (IIRC that's what 14.04 is shipping) now so the 5.3 use numbers should start going down.


On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 7:52 AM, George Wilson <georgejameswilson AT googlemail.com> wrote:
Personally I don't see an issue with 5.3 support. There are many hosts still on it. Plus as far as i know there are very few areas where it would make a difference. Even the json serializable stuff wouldn't be able to be fixed with the PHP5.5 & linux mess.

Also if we want to encourage more people to contribute we should be reassuring people latest and greatest features will still end in the CMS, because at the end of the day CMS contributors are going to be the majority of the contributors for the foreseeable future. Just because the CMS can still use v1.0 for composer, it doesn't really encourage people to submit features to the framework which go into v2.0 and we see in the CMS 5 years later when we move to v4.0 of the CMS...

Kind Regards,
George


On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 8:52:01 AM UTC+1, Dmitry Rekun aka b2z wrote:
+1
Dmitry

On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 7:21:07 AM UTC+3, Michael Babker wrote:
With efforts on getting packages up to 2.0 underway, one of the things that should be looked at is PHP 5.3 support.  With it having just gone EOL, should the 2.0 packages be required to continue supporting it or can we look at dropping support for it?

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